Why Do Liberals Applaud Awful Behavior?

(Thanks to InstaPundit for the link!)

This is how far liberalism has sunk in Wisconsin.

 

I’m someone who doesn’t agree with Sarah Palin on most issues – but why is this good?

This isn’t debate. It’s not answering her arguments. He’s not explaining a difference in policy. It’s yelling. It’s making noise. It’s not discourse. It’s what drunk frat boys do when a song comes on that they don’t like. It’s what people in Detroit do to Charlie Sheen. It’s what kids do before an adult tells them to stop or go on a timeout.

But look at the comments from the  liberal blog Political Carnival

Progressives Rock!

this makes me happy – love these people

What a Beautiful Sound let’s see if FOX shows this or better yet shows this without any anti

No. No! This isn’t a beautiful sound – it’s the sound of idiots. Got that? IDIOTS YELLING.

I would hate this behavior for exactly the same reasons if I saw conservatives doing this to a speaker. So here’s

my question…

When HAVE conservatives done this? Do they show up en masse at public rallies to keep Bernie Sanders or Michael Moore from speaking?

UPDATE VIDEO: Speaks for itself. Sadly.

66 Comments

  1. As has been said numerous times, conservatives tend to see liberals as stupid, while liberals see conservatives as evil (as well as stupid). If your opponent is stupid, it might be possible to educate him, so shouting him down makes little sense. If your opponent is evil, on the other hand, you should combat him will all means necessary. And that includes shouting down 14-year-old girls – she’s a tool of evil, right?

    The biggest problem with modern liberalism, I think, is its certainty that it holds a monopoly on truth and virtue. It’s a lot like many forms of Christianity in previous centuries, and like much of Islam today. If you are the one virtuous population in a sea of evil-doers, it is very easy to justify ignoring rules of courtesy. This is evil you are fighting, after all.

    Reply
  2. I watched this and immediately thought of the “two minutes of hate” from 1984. That novel gets more and more relevant with each passing day. Unbelievable.

    Reply
  3. I want to take the low road and just attribute it to their overall emotional stuntedness, but then I remember where I’m posting this, and think a second. It can’t be THAT simple.
    There’s a problem, a serious problem, somewhere in their culture, that causes this crap. They have the wrong heroes, for one thing. And they’ve got a downright comicbookish view of their opponents, with themselves as valiant truth-to-powering underdogs and us as soulless golems in the thrall of capitalistical supervillains. But these are symptoms, not the cause.
    I can’t figure out the cause, so ahmina punt to “emotional stuntedness” after all. The clowntards in these videos are essentially 8th-graders in grown-up bodies.

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  4. Lee,

    I’ve been reading you religiously for the past few weeks because of posts like this one. I’m conservative and we probably don’t agree on much politically, but I applaud your efforts to clean up the discourse. The mainstream media would do itself and us a great service by following your lead.

    Please keep up the great work. Thank you!

    Reply
  5. I can say that I have seen people on the conservative right show up to protest appearances, but not so much on political terms. Just think of Marilyn Manson for a moment, and go from there. Additionally, there are the right to life walks and such, which are political according to liberals (but moral according to walkers.) However, I have noticed that these walks are mostly quiet and peacful, not interrupting beyond that of simply being a huge group of people in public trying to get their attention. Zombietime has some nice comparos between conservative and liberal marches, which side has cuter girls, which side leaves more trash behind, which ones you’d rather take kids to… check em out.

    Stoopy Dave, my current view on the source of the difference is found in ethical studies. Study utilitarianism and deontology for a start. It explains much of their behavior, AND how they view their opponenets. My conclusion is that liberals are mostly utilitarians, and conservatives are mostly deontologists- and this explains the majority of the differences and perspectives quite well. Utilitarianism becomes more and more technocratic as it advances on a social/collective level, offending conservatives with their “social engineering.” Deontology sticks with the underlying broad but universal priciples and laws as a matter of virtue, offending those who want to see justice redistributed from its natural (Darwinian) order. Loyalty to leadership seems to be taken too far in some cases on both sides, spoiling the merits of both systems.

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  6. Still can’t figure out what this thing of yours about disagreeing with Palin on most issues is all about. Will you be writing about that for your fans soon?

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  7. The Left is playing with fire. Should the issue ever be joined in kind it will not be pretty. Check Igor Panarin for more.

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  8. “Do [conservatives] show up en masse at public rallies to keep Bernie Sanders or Michael Moore from speaking?”

    No, we’ve got jobs.

    Reply
  9. Conservatives don’t shout down leftists because we want America to hear what these folks actually believe.

    Leftists use bullhorns to drown out conservative speakers because they don’t want America to hear what we have to say.

    The simplest answer is usually the correct one.

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  10. “”” No, we’ve got jobs. “””

    Actually, so do many of them, but here’s the difference: you actually DO your job diligently and responsibly — these guys take lots of time off on your dime to do this kind of stuff, and are incompetent when they are at “work.”

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  11. Its not good because its violent extortion. What went on was a display of what will happen to a person that doesn’t think according to the playbook … tax and spend good, big government good, unions good, business bad, self reliance bad, liberty bad.

    You say you don’t agree with Sarah much. Consider this. If she is so wrong, why are so many people trying to drown out her views?

    A little secret about the truth …. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Arthur Schopenhauer, a German philosopher. Sarah is speaking the truth and we are presently in stage 2.

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  12. “conservatives tend to see liberals as stupid, while liberals see conservatives as evil”

    It’s time conservatives woke up to the fact that liberals are evil and treated them accordingly.

    Reply
  13. Conservative do not try and stop anyone from speaking because we believe in free speech and the constitution.

    Reply
  14. > “conservatives tend to see liberals as stupid, while liberals see conservatives as evil”

    > It’s time conservatives woke up to the fact that liberals are evil and treated them accordingly.

    I respectfully disagree.

    It’s time conservative woke up to the fact that liberals are [b]both[/b] stupid and evil. Or perhaps one leads to the other. It doesn’t matter, liberals/leftists/liberal fascists are definitely in the zone of stupidly evil, or evilly stupid.

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  15. TO: All
    RE: When Will….

    ….the drunken frat boys decide that just yelling and carrying on will not silence the Tea Party? And what will they do after that?

    Three guesses. First two don’t count. But this is the way the Communists took over in Russia and China. First they yell. Then they intimidate. And when those fail, they kill.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    P.S. The follow-on question is, what will the SEIU ‘police’ do? Anything? Or will they side with their union?

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  16. Quickest way for Palin to answer heckling union thugs and progs: “Free beer and hot dogs for everybody who clams up!”

    Once Palin says that I guarantee you’ll be able to hear a pin drop. 😉

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  17. I asked in one forum if these people hadn’t a teat to suck but watching the video it’s obvious, no bitch would suckle one of these hounds.

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  18. “When HAVE conservatives done this?”

    I can grant you the criticism of the left. I cannot grant you “we” don’t do this. Yeah, you do. Groupthink happens on both sides. I’ve seen left AND right act like mobs. Different kinds of mobs, for sure, but the minute you say “MY TRIBE is not given to the same weaknesses as YOUR TRIBE” – well, that’s just something you’ve chosen not to see. Because it’s the very nature of acting like a tribe that leads to this slippery slope.

    And this is the reason I identify with neither the left or the right. It’s far less comfortable, but it’s also far more honest. For one thing, I’ll never have to lie about ‘MY TRIBE’s’ behavior.

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  19. Stoopy Davy Dave wrote above: “And (the left has) got a downright comicbookish view of their opponents, with themselves as valiant truth-to-powering underdogs and us as soulless golems in the thrall of capitalistical supervillains.”

    This is a simple but crucial point, and one that is too often overlooked in analysis of modern American politics. Conservatives would be wise to not take it for granted, and to fully integrate it into their basic understanding of the political dialogue.

    It boils down to this: When the left battles conservatives and libertarians, it is almost always fighting a strawman. That’s a big reason the political and moral discussion in this country has been stalled for several decades now. The left simply doesn’t engage our actual arguments — it just attacks its own caricature of our motivations and our “false consciousness.”

    And so the left doesn’t hear us when we talk about liberty and the sovereignty of the individual and the founding intent. We can make our arguments both eloquently, as conservative-libertarian intellectuals do, and colloquially, as my 87-year-old rural grandmother might do. It doesn’t matter either way, because the left doesn’t listen. It merely shouts “shame!” and asks “what’s the matter with Kansas” and refuses to ever debate us on the actual terms we’re seeking.

    And that’s the REAL shame, because that argument — the morality of individual liberty — is the most interesting and enduring debate in the history of human civilization.

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  20. I have been wondering where all the sane Dems went. A few years back, Dems were people that might disagree about a few things, but were otherwise nice normal Americans, and we knew they loved America… then they all seemed to disappear.

    So here’s one, anyway – Mr. Stranahan. I sure hope the rest come out from wherever they are, the country needs them.

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  21. It’s quite simple, I think. Conservatives believe in meritocracy, where excellence is aspired to and rewarded, mediocrity is tolerated and tutored and failure is given assistance. Liberals believe in seniority, forced equality, social justice and that “the pie” has a finite number of slices, so if someone has achieved more than me, they must have taken it FROM me.

    Unions, gender and race-based grievance groups, educated elites and the rest of the patchwork constituencies of the Democrats fit this description in many, if not most cases. In their world, the Teacher of the Year is fired because she had no union seniority when budget cuts came. (True Fact).

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  22. @Mr. Snitch:
    Video or it didn’t happen.

    Liar

    Reply
  23. It _is_ just that simple; Many people never grow up, they just pretend,
    and when faced with a situation requiring an adult response, they fail.

    You ain’t seen nothin yet; Wait until inflation starts to bite and watch
    the hysteria – from a safe distance, say one or two states away. 🙁

    Reply
  24. Lee, I also have to ask which of Palin’s views you disagree with.

    See, I’ve found that even when the scales fall from the eyes of Democrats they are still steeped in the disinformation to which they’ve been subjected for decades (or in Palin’s case two years 24/7). You probably disagree with what you’ve been told are her views. But her views/record might be different than you think. For instance: while governor she never tried to change the abortion laws in AK regardless of her personal views on the subject. She never tried to ban books at any time in her political career. She does believe in birth control. She does believe in abstinence education but not abstinence only. She did not cause anyone to be charged for a rape kit. She does not believe in ditching the teaching of evolution in schools. She believes in free enterprise and personal liberty/responsibility. She actually supports unions but not the organized crime outfits masquerading as such these days.

    You should read both of her books before you truly decide you disagree with her. I think you’ll be surprised at how much you might actually agree with even if you find her persona cheesy.

    But, of course, if you disagree with what she said specifically in the speech in Madison, I’d love to read your article outlining why/how you think she’s wrong. Seriously, I’m not being facetious, I’m interested in your opinions on these matters.

    I love your articles, BTW. I’m sorry if your leftist readers have decided to shut you out rather than read your new take. They’re missing a lot.

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  25. @jodetoad:
    Hear! Hear!

    My pet theory is that the pressure that Reality is exerting on their worldview is driving them insane. FWIW, I started forming this theory in response to an op-ed about I read about a week after 9/11. In this magical, lost op-ed, the writer theorized that IT would force Liberals to face the contradictions of their ideo/theology. Eventually, I managed to work out the flaws in his argument. I theorized they would actually split in three main camps: the Patriots, the Traitors, and the Crazies.

    Sure enough, some Libs *did* face their demons, and became “9/11 Republicans”. Others decided the time was right to double-down on their treasonous worldview (Dick Durban, Lynne Stewart, Jim McDermott, etc). And the rest have slowly, fitfully, sadly been losing touch with reality.

    And this, Lee, is why we’re so impressed with you. You’re one of the precious few in Column Four: Liberals who’ve held to their principles *and stayed sane*. You’ve navigated ten tortuous years with your humanity essentially intact. I salute you, and wish you well.

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  26. Earl, very nice point. I will ponder that and likely post in the near future. In the meantime, there is a First Things essay this month on The Moral Economy of Guilt that touches on some of that issue, though it is not at all the point of the essay.

    Mr. Snitch, I almost agree. I have certainly listened to conservatives who make me nervous about where they are going next, and read even more of them. But I think there is an important difference. It is an offense-defense thing. Conservatives with a violent streak tend to get into a “I’m going to hole up with plenty of weapons and if anyone comes after me, I’ll know what to do.” There is far, far less of going out and looking for people to intimidate. Not so on the left – the idea of getting in people’s faces is seen as a good thing, and if some of the boyos get out of hand and hurt someone, well, it was the conservatives who brought it on themselves. Nonviolent people accomplish violence by getting other people to do it and then making excuses for it. So unions, more extreme minority organizations, environmentalists, antiglobalists (have I left anyone out?) commit violence, but Arts & Humanities liberals keep their hands clean while praising with faint damns.

    I don’t know that any of the most violent qualify as actual liberals, BTW. Sometimes ruffians just like action and need a cause to feel self-righteous about. But those folks are widely tolerated on the left, at minimum.

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  27. First of all, these people are not liberals in any meaningful sense of the word. And they are only “leftists” in an atavistic, tribal sense, not because they have a coherent Marxist world view. Of course it is not “liberal” to try to keep someone else from speaking. But the political Left of today left liberalism behind decades ago. Oh, sure, there is a vague, residual notion that statism is good (except when it restricts or taxes anything you personally want to do.) But even the statism of these demonstrators is just an inchoate, intellectually ragtag backdrop for self interest, whether that interest be the power of their own union or just stick-it-to-the-Man, adolescent developmental arrest, wrapped in the thinnest veneer of ideological posing.

    These people are babies banging their spoons on their high chairs, indulged by decades of leftist rhetoric and moral rot in the schools, universities and media. Or else they are simple thugs, trying to get their selfish way by any means necessary. Real, principled liberals need to wake up and realize what has become of the Left and the Democrats if they want to preserve any credibility at all of their own civic philosophy. Tea Party conservatives would certainly be denouncing KKK-ers showing up at the rallies of Democrats. Where are the principled liberals (other than the intellectually and morally honest Mr. Stranahan) denouncing these brats, thugs and goons? Crickets.

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  28. The unions involved here are actually on to a tactic that worked long before they became part of the Democratic Party. Scare the opposition and if neccessary beat the snot out of the opposition. The middle class mostly gets in a muddle because they have faced so little in the way of actual physical threats they don’t know what to do.

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  29. Patterson, you’re right. The people who dismiss these tactics and believe that they are counterproductive don’t understand that these are tactics that have been used successfully for ages. Whether its labor violence during strikes or street violence leading to political coups, violence works. It disrupts the attempts of the peaceful majority to reach compromise and imposes the will of the person willing to be violent as the non-violent give in for the sake of peace. Speakers are prevented from speaking because of threats of violent disruption on campuses throughout this country and Canada.

    The people who run unions arrange for the demonstrations like the ones we have seen for the past month in Madison because they have worked in the past. They’re not stupid even if their foot soldiers are.

    And then there’s fear. Fear of being in middle aged or a construction worker and never being able to get a good job again. Fear of graduating from college deep in debt without a job offer. Fear that the government check you depend on will be taken away. Fear that every time you go to the grocery store food prices will be higher. Fear that gas prices will go even higher. And the fault lies in Sarah Palin and the Tea Party who want to stop Obama from making everything better. So they give vent to their rage and fear and for a few minutes they feel better. Or maybe they can intimidate their opponents into shutting up and going away.

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  30. “Chuck Pelto April 18, 2011 at 6:31 pm
    TO: All
    RE: When Will….

    ….the drunken frat boys decide that just yelling and carrying on will not silence the Tea Party? And what will they do after that?”

    I think they will discover that most Tea Party activists and conservatives strongly believe in the 2nd Amendment and the right to self-defense.

    And I think it will come to that. Imagine summer, 2012. There’ll be riots if Obama is tanking. Be prepared.

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  31. Lee says: I’m someone who doesn’t agree with Sarah Palin on most issues

    I often hear comments like this, but most of the time it’s ad hominem attacks on Mrs Palin. The lies that have been told are now taken for gospel. “I can see Russia from my house”. Never said. But doesn’t matter to the left. Why? Because truth is not what matters. Control and power are the ultimate goal.

    Tell me Lee, what exactly are core beliefs that you disagree with Sarah Palin? That we must cut government spending? That radical Islam has no place in America?

    And do you now start posting posts like this because you get more attention and comments, even if they’re from conservatives? Is this your payback for being dissed on the HuffPo?

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  32. PSGInfinity April 18, 2011 at 7:06 pm
    @Mr. Snitch:
    Video or it didn’t happen.

    Liar

    And for a demonstration that ‘conservatives’ can be as bitter and hateful as any leftist, allow me to present ‘PSGInfinity’. Lovely.

    And I came back to catch this precisely because I knew someone would show up with something like this. Attack ‘my tribe’ and you’re a liar.

    Once you brand someone as a ‘liar’ (or whatever label you wish to slap on him), any behavior of yours becomes justified. It’s exactly what the left does to the right, for sure.

    But the right does it right back.

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  33. Just a shout-out to ‘Assistant Village Idiot’. I’ve read many of his posts over the years he’s blogged. He’s very thoughtful. Lots of respect.

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  34. Mr. Snitch, we’re still waiting. Where’s the video link?

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  35. These people doing this shouting down are not liberals. They are FACIST plain and simple.

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  36. Good people see this behavior for what it is, and for some it even converts them away from the Left.

    I was a member of just such a crowd back in the early 1980s. I thought we were there to hear, and then ask tough questions of Dr Joe Scheider. Instead, the moment he stepped on stage the howling & screams & cacophony climaxed and did not stop until he walked off stage, never uttering a single understandable word. Nobody in the audience had the choice to to make up their own minds. We Leftist thugs had taken that choice away. I was very uncomfortable with the anti intellectual temper tantrum we had just thrown. I was even more upset with my inability to find a single person sympathetic with my disgust.

    Thus began my long journey away from the Left.

    Thank you! potty mouthed uncivil shallow trendy anti intellectual thugs of the Left!

    Even bigger thanks & bigger ups go out to all my feminist friends whose feminine nature could always be counted on to contradict their feminist slogans. Thanks ladies!

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  37. I love this meme: “both sides have mobs.” Really?

    The left has been forming mobs for so long it’s considered “normal.” The events are so common they aren’t even covered by the MSM. The whistles, the drum banging, the giant papier mâché puppets, the filthy unprintable signs, public drunkenness, drug use, hangings in effigy, storming of offices, windows broken, trash everywhere…this is normal stuff for San Francisco and events like any given meeting of the WTO.

    But put a few well-behaved conservatives together and they are instantly equated with the anarchistic mobs of the left.

    There is a difference: the right loves America. The left are “citizens of the world” and believe America to be the source of evil.

    Tell me: how many on the left even own an American flag, much less fly it?

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  38. You’re getting closer, Lee. Keep looking at the left. If their tactics are reprehensible, maybe their ideas aren’t true. You’re on a journey. Don’t stop.

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  39. Mister Snitch-

    Jesse Jackson and Michael Moore addressed the crowds in Madison. Post the video of the Tea Party shouting them down with that kind of hate and vitriol. Or any video, anywhere, of that happening from the Right, aimed at the Left. If both sides do it, surely the cameras were rolling.

    Otherwise, your statement of fact is yet another unsupported opinion.

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  40. When I first saw this video, I was scared. This is not normal behavior from normal people. We on the right are in a fight, only most do not know. Thank you Lee, you appear to be level headed, for someone on the other side!

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  41. Sissy Willis April 18, 2011 at 5:51 pm
    “Still can’t figure out what this thing of yours about disagreeing with Palin on most issues is all about. Will you be writing about that for your fans soon?”
    Sissy Willis raises a great point. The disagreeing with Palin thing is something I come across remarkably often, yet almost without exception, when I ask exactly what they disagree with, most people cannot think of anything specific other than abortion.

    On that matter, lets say I can see an argument to be pro-choice, but not pro-abortion (its actually not the same thing). I’m actually not entirely clear where Palin actually stands on that issue, although she is clearly at the pro-life end of the spectrum.

    I heard and anti-Palin comment from one of workmates today, and challenged them on it. They very quickly agreed they really knew nothing about Palin other than general perceptions from the mainstream press. I’m old enough to remember Ronald Reagan in the 70’s and 80’s, and my first, negative, impressions of him were formed in a similar way. My scepticism of the press, and my drift from the political left to right, occurred during the Reagan presidency when it became so obvious that the reality was vastly different to the press narrative.

    But I would be interested to see what you came up with if you looked into Sarah Palin’s positions on different issues and seeing what you disagree with.

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  42. We should not be surpised by any of this. In a lot of other contexts, the interest in maintaining an orthodoxy is very clear. College campuses all over the country suppress free speech by measuring speech against a long catalog of thought that is deemed offensive to someone (i.e., one of the designated victim groups). When someone in one of those groups violates the orthodoxy (think of conservative African-Americans), the denunciations are merciless. This is another variation on those practices … correct thought (and thus correct speech) are to be enforced. Since the late 1960s a great deal of the thought of what was once thought of as the extreme left has worked its way into the habits of the broader left, largely through identity politics.

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  43. Interesting that you disagree with Palin. I hope she runs so I can vote for her. To the issue: This is an illustration of the decline of a prevailing paradigm. The idea in charge has gone on relatively unchallenged for over a hundred years. It has not had to justify what it thinks and does for most of that time. It has acted freely, and controlled the mode of thinking of all major parties for decades. It does not want to give up its position and has an unconscious realization that it is in the process of failing and is aware that it cannot hold onto power without the untrammeled use of the power it holds. It KNOWS it is incapable of defending itself with evidence. (When I speak of “knowledge” in this context I am speaking of that derived tacitly. This is in actuality simply behavioral reflex, but it is rational, in its own way.)

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  44. “Jesse Jackson and Michael Moore addressed the crowds in Madison. Post the video of the Tea Party shouting them down with that kind of hate and vitriol. Or any video, anywhere, of that happening from the Right, aimed at the Left. If both sides do it, surely the cameras were rolling.”

    First of all, anything I posted, you would automatically dismiss. You’ll see what you want to see.

    Second of all, the demands from commenters that I specifically post videos of Tea Party types acting badly is merely convenient. I freely admit I have seen no such videos. But I also never said there WERE any such videos.

    The reason for the behavior in the video above, and in many similar videos, is because the left feels threatened. It feels threatened in a way the Tea Party does not. The Tea Party may be annoyed, outraged, and any number of other things, but it is not threatened in the same way the left is here, in terms of its existence.

    My contention, for those who ARE listening (‘wuzzadem’ and others are not, and will not) is that ‘conservatives’, in the SAME situation, will behave the SAME way. I hardly need to demonstrate this, as anyone who has eyes can see this. But for those few with open eyes who would, in fact, care to examine this concept, one place to begin might be with Ronald Reagan’s confrontations with students when he was Governor of California. They’re a pretty good example of conservatives acting badly, and they’re not pretty. And they’re easy enough to find.

    For that matter, you could examine any number of actions of the Nixon administration against anti-war protestors. This tone was reflected by conservatives across the country. When I was in grade school, in fact, one conservative teacher became so incensed by anti-administration sentiment that he staged an ugly confrontation with his entire class (which I was in). I have never forgotten that. (Sorry, no video. Therefore, I’m ‘lying’. Just to save some of you the time.)

    Nixon was threatened, Reagan was threatened. When people in power are threatened, they lash out whether they are on the left or the right. But it was not just those in power who reacted this way. Conservatives of all types were threatened during those years. And threatened conservatives behave in a manner surprisingly similar to threatened liberals.

    Whether they choose to see it or not.

    Koblog
    I love this meme: “both sides have mobs.” Really?

    Both sides, when pressured, engage in groupthink and a mob mentality. Yes, really. Historically. Factually. Demonstrably.

    And both sides deny it. Both sides see it ONLY coming from the other camp.

    As you yourself demonstrate.

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  45. I want to say one more thing. For those here capable of perspective, an examination of these behaviors through the lens of history reveals something that has happened before. It is part of an ongoing, and painful, shift from the left to the right. And at the moment, the behavior of the left is making the right look pretty good.

    In the last fifties and on through the sixties, the country experienced a similarly painful shift from the right to the left. Guess who behaved badly then? Guess who looked good then?

    It was ever thus.

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  46. My FIL is a retired union construction workers official. He’s stupid and violent and condones this type of behavior. His attitude tells me all I need to know about the union thugs in WI, they are cut from the same mold. Thankfully, their time is passing.

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  47. Lee:
    This if the first time I have come across your blogspot and I must say you did a good job here. You and I may disagree on many political issues – fine, that is part of living in a democratic republic.

    Living just outside DC, I attended the Tea Party rally held in the city in the Fall of 2009. In all honesty, I do not recall seeing or sensing the kind of vitriol and immaturity at that rally, as we see here in this, and other videos of counter-protests in Madison, Portland, etc.

    As a fiscal conservative, socially more libertarian person who has seen my own leanings modify over the years, my major concern in the area of budget issues is simply that we as a nation are on a unsustainable path. I am tired of the Republican party never seeing a tax cut it was not in favor of; and likewise I am tired of the Dems being the party of the free lunch. And simply “taxing the rich” (however they may be defined) simply will not fill the gap. Nor will just defense cuts, or modest adjustments to Medicare/caid waste and fraud cut it. Same with Social Security. If we as a nation really wish to ensure those programs are there in 25, 50, 100 plus years for the truly needy, we will have to start making some serious adjustments to those programs now.

    Keep up the good work

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  48. The problem that the left has with thuggish behavior can be found in the epilogue to Joshua Muravchik’s book Heaven on Earth: The Rise and Fall of Socialism:

    “By no means all socialists were killers or amoral. Many were sincere humanitarians; mostly these were the adherents of democratic socialism. But democratic socialism turned out to be a contradiction in terms, for where socialists proceeded democratically, the found themselves on a trajectory that took them further and further from socialism. Long before Lenin, socialist thinkers had anticipated the problem. The imaginary utopias of Plato, Moore, Campanella and Edward Bellamy, whose 1887 novel, Looking Backward, was the most popular socialist book in American history, all relied on coercion, as did the plans of The Conspiracy of Equals. Only once did democratic socialists manage to create socialism. That was the kibbutz. And after they had experienced it, they chose democratically to abolish it.”

    Left-wing objectives cannot be achieved through reason and democratic means. They must be achieved through coercion, manipulation, propaganda, and worse or abandoned. That a man who was called “The Incorruptible” by his supporters, Maximilien Robespierre, ultimately wound up engineering the Reign of Terror is a wonderful example of where “the ends justify the means” thinking in the quest for Utopia ultimately must end when there are no limits on power. And the thuggish behavior exhibited by left-wing activists is simply a more subdued expression of the same thing.

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  49. With all due respect, going through this thread I see that most people are dancing around the truth.

    A nation can be roughly defined as a people with a shared language, history, culture [that may or may not include a common religion], and sense of that sharing; with a common attachment to a specific territory. If any of those factors are not shared, there is the potential for violent separation. If there is active hostility by only one side over one factor, violence is likely. More than one, and violent civil conflict is inevitable.

    The people of the United States are divided. Those who are of what is referred to as the Left, the Democrats and their allies; do not share any of these factors with us, and delight in offending those who do not share their belief system.

    We do not share a language. We share the same words, but they do not mean the same things to either side. Talking to one of the Leftists screaming in the videos if you are not a Leftist; you come away realizing that at a very basic level we do not think alike. And to be honest, when they talk with us, they come away feeling the same thing; albeit probably with an undertone that we have to be “eliminated” by any means necessary.

    The Left views American history as an unbroken history of atrocities against humanity deserving punishment. We view ourselves as being the last best hope of mankind and the citadel of freedom.

    The Left utterly rejects the Judeo-Christian culture, and the concept of the worth of the individual and inalienable individual rights; preferring a collectivist culture where “rights” are what are granted by the State, conditionally, and where an elite determines the lives of the non-elites.

    The Left defiantly marks itself out as different from the rest of us; rejecting the rule of law, civility, that we have shared rights under the Constitution, and our very worth and beliefs [q.v., the constant threats of death and violence, and violent acts coming from the Left, and the constant deliberate public acts of contempt for the values of others (the paragon of the Left caught on video in Portland saying that he wiped his a** with the flag after defecating and referring repeated to maternal incest has gotten not one word of condemnation from his side and it can be assumed more than a little fame)].

    The Left views this country not as a sovereign nation and homeland; but as being of lesser worth than any of a number of others; be they China, Russia, Socialist Europe, or any of a number of third world hellholes. Their interest in it is as a satrapy to rule over, not cherish and protect. They reflexively ally themselves with any force hostile to the US and its people, imbuing them with virtue based on the concept of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”.

    All members of our Political Class, regardless of party, hold those who do not share their “elite” status in contempt. But the hatred behind the oleaginous words of the Democrats seems far more palpable to us.

    And in the interest of accuracy, they view us in equivalent mirror image terms.

    We are no longer E Pluribus Unum, but rather the reverse formulation once mistakenly stated by a Democrat presidential candidate. We are two or more irredeemably hostile nations inside one set of borders. Our differences are so great that we can no longer settle them by dialog. This is not going to be resolved except by one side being destroyed by the other. They are no longer our countrymen, nor we theirs. Which side will survive is very much in doubt, and there is a long, dark night ahead for our poor country.

    Subotai Bahadur

    Reply
  50. Mister Snitch, in the 1960s it was the Left that behaved badly just as it is now.

    Reply
  51. The union supporters are in the middle of a fight were Sarah Palin has injected herself and is most unwelcome. The Tea Party IS the problem.

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  52. For those of you asking for videos, I posted a comment with several videos linked, but I’m told it’s “awaiting moderation.”

    Reply
  53. Because these sort of people aren’t liberals, and its time you woke up to that fact. They are union brownshirts. These are the same sort of thugs who organize beerhall putzchs and cutural revolutions. This is the sort of hate that gets you genocides and pogroms. They want what they want when they want it and think that constitutes some sort of natural law and anybody who disagrees is an Enemy of the People.

    Reply
  54. No Jeremy, unhinged, violent union thugs are the problem. They answer policies they don’t like with death threats and intimidation. Go ahead, explain why that’s okay.

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  55. To Lee Strahanan:
    I applaud you. Very few liberals are capable of recognizing bad conduct on their own side. They are more likely to applaud it, as you pointed out. I notice also, that despite a lot of leftist propaganda about how unhinged the Tea Party is, you are also capable of recognizing the plain fact that however much you may disagree with the Tea Party, they are much better on the civility front than these unhinged leftist thugs.

    I appreciate leftists when they argue with the Tea Party in a civil and logical fashion. Honest conservatives should recognize such arguments, since they may expose weaknesses in our own views. But the kind of mob shouting, and name calling, that the left constantly seems to engage in, while simultaneously saying the right is uncivil, does nothing to advance their cause.

    To Jeremy, however much you may disagree with Palin, you should never support the kind of extreme leftist thuggish behavior seen here. Your speakers at your leftist rally in Madison were not shouted down by any Tea Party hecklers, like these leftist thugs did to Palin. You discredit your own cause by condoning these tactics.

    I am not one to shy away from fighting for a cause. But the fighting should be done with ideas, rallies, get out the vote efforts, and other civil and legal means, not the thuggish mob shoutdowns we see here.

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  56. Kustie the Klown
    “Mister Snitch, in the 1960s it was the Left that behaved badly just as it is now.”

    You mean, like when the left harassed Martin Luther King’s peaceful, purposeful demonstrations for civil rights? Oh, wait…

    Perhaps you’re thinking about all the leftists who promoted McCarthyism, a bit further back in the ’50’s? Oh, wait…

    Hmm. But it MUST have been the left! Conservatives are ALWAYS so well-behaved.

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  57. Bull Connor and George Wallace were Democrats.
    Democrat Robert Byrd was a Klansman.
    Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act, Al Gore , Sr. voted against it.

    See, I had three example and you only had two, so I win.

    Reply
  58. President Camacho
    See, I had three example and you only had two, so I win.

    Ah. The maturity of the right.

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  59. Well, I guess “awaiting moderation” might be indefinite. If you really are, as you say, interested in seeing video of similar behavior from the right, you may go to YouTube and search for the following videos:

    Dl5Jo0GnX-k?
    yX4F_cb9AXk?
    4L_WSj71Ipk?
    s1Ntu7Aapys

    Reply
  60. Ah, the humorless Left. I love them so.

    Please keep defending your untenable positions through protest marches, walkouts, death threats, defamation, lies, screaming and pouting when you lose elections.

    It’s like taking a Maturity Master Class!!

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  61. Mr. Snitch:
    “I’ve seen left AND right act like mobs. ”

    Really?
    Zombietime present evidence, and lots of it; where’s yours?
    http://zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/

    Reply
  62. Ah, I see I commented too soon. (shakes fisties at accursed two-page comment-posting thingy)
    Later on, it turns out that Mister Snitch has got a half-page-long list of reasons why he doesn’t need evidence, which is of course a great substitute FOR evidence, and amidst the slag is this gem:
    “I hardly need to demonstrate this, as anyone who has eyes can see this.”
    Got it. “If only you could see things my way, I’m sure you’d see things my way.”
    Yeah, but, see, having made the assertion, having so bravely challenged the locally prevailing “groupthink” of this blog’s readers, IT’S YOUR JOB to get us to see things your way.
    So far, fail.

    Reply
  63. Aster, my reply to your reply also is “awaiting moderation,” so I think I see the problem. It might be that there’s a one-url limit on this comment thread. Hence the following three replies plus this one, and apologies for all this threadjacking, but here’s what I found when I followed your links:
    1/

    I have NO problem hearing Rep. Lipinsky’s remarks. None. Ditto for Midge Hough.

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  64. 2/

    Yeah, these folks are pretty rude, but about 1/20th to 1/10th as threatening as the union flashmobs in Madison. I especially like the part where they DON’T storm the building and prance around in it.

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  65. 3/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L_WSj71Ipk
    Dude. Did you even preview this at all before you presented it?
    The protesters, who come nowhere close to drowning out the speaker, are PRO-SINGLE-PAYER socialists. The speaker calls them “teabaggers,” and the YouTube headline-writing wretard calls them “teabaggers,” but they’re not. They’re all yours.

    Reply
  66. … ahmina hafta change my moniker to Spam Davy Dave, aren’t I? Just one more …
    4/

    My favorite part of this one is around the 3:00 mark, where Lisa turns around and poses a question to the T.E.A.Partiers, and they STOP CHANTING, let her ask it, and then they answer it.
    You got a counterexample for that?
    When’s the last time Code Pink did that?

    Reply

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